The Jericho Road

Hi Jan,

I have always been puzzled by the fact that we Seventh-day Adventists have different standards of hermeneutics and thinking for our evangelists than we have for those in our seminaries. I just came across the same kind of debate on the Spectrum Blog.

The challenge for us is to be really committed to the spirit of truth telling and the pursuit of truth... and to hold ourselves to that standard as much as we try to hold those who do not agree with us to that standard.

I'm following this discussion with great interest.

Weiers

very interesting article. on most issues I agree with the author:)

Dr Veith reveals The Word.
Only some ignorant ineffuctuals who have even confessed they did not listen to his seminars make the stupid inaccurate remarks that any but themselves infer he IS the Word !
Why ? Because they have not the slightest bit of real argument to use , but rather attempt to quibble about body doubles or other nonsense.
Like others I have met , the current thinking is : If the leaders do not shake themselves now, e.g. Such as The British Website which will not include www.amazingdiscoveries.org even on its list of sites ( which in contradiction of Ellen White does include ecumenical and even UN sites ! ) for example , then tithes will ALL be to Dr Veith's ministry - and this is already the case for some of us , and more of us will so do !
Refrusal and resistence to Dr Veith by some leaders is wrong .
So be it . Truth at any cost !

Hello. I got your link from a friend. I saw the Onslaught Video, and this man by arrogantly putting scriptures together, presents a position that is too "this way or no way", leading people into a secure feeling of thinking they know what the Bible means, when in reality, the truth could be likely different in the future than what is being presented. I try to listen to all views, but then let facts, history, and Yahweh to clearly reveal scripture prophecy when it happens. Since Daniel's prophecy is not completed 100% yet, I reserve the future to be revealed by itself.

Also, below is something to consider regarding the Beasts in Revelation 17 and 13 to consider, which contradicts his notions. I've copied it from another internet site.

Greg

Here is my view of Rev 13. It’s not as mysterious as people think it is. I’ve included chapter 17 at the beginning to explain the 7 kings, 7 mountains, 10 horns, and 10 kings. I posted Rev chapter 17 in another thread. If you have read that post, skip down to “chapter 13”:

Key to the Book of Revelation:

Water = soul/emotion
Earth = carnal mind/flesh
Air=Ruach/spirit
Sun=Light of Yahweh

The reason people do not look at the beast this way is because they try to use the Bible to interept the Bible. They look at the image of the bear, leapord, and lion in Rev 13 and connect it to the kingdoms in Daniel 7, which are earthly kingdoms. So, they assume Revelation is talking about the same principles based on Daniel's interpretation. But, what they don't consider is that it is not the same vision, but the beast of Rev 13 has a part of all the other world kingdoms in it, to illustrate the beasts power of Rev 13 in the kingdoms in Daniel 7. Thus, the Book of Revelation is the deeper level of thought, which beast is the flesh and carnal mind that drives all the kingdoms of the world, including the kingdoms identified in Daniel.

Here we go:

Rev17:7-18:

7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

8 The beast [time] that you saw was [past], and is not [future], and will ascend out of the bottomless pit [sinful desires] and go to perdition [destruction-death]. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was [past], and is not [future], and yet is [present].

[This beast is being contrasted to Yahweh who is, was, and is to come—the Eternal One. That’s the key to understanding it. One is human and limited, the carnal mind of man. The other is Eternal and unlimited—the Ruach mind of Yahweh Elohim. He looks perfectly at all things past, present, and future as truth. Those who have their name written in the Book of Life are more impressed with Yahweh than the flesh. Indeed, the flesh is disciplined and viewed as challenging to live within to refrain from sin. Time limits of flesh were created when Adam and Eve's sinful desires caused them to disobey Yahweh Elohim. Sinful desire is a bottomless pit, for it is never satisfied, no matter how deep into darkness a soul falls.]

9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains [carnal five senses and past and future time.] on which the woman sits.

10 There are also seven kings [five senses and human mind of present and future plans]. Five have fallen [human flesh], one is [present], and the other has not yet come [future]. And when he comes[future], he must continue a short time [future becomes the present, and then immediately the past].

11 The beast [time] that was [past], and is not [future], is himself also the eighth [time], and is of the seven [human flesh and mind], and is going to perdition [beast = time, flesh, and mind. It is not eternal life. It is destroyed in death].

[This describes human flesh and the carnal mind perfectly. The mountains are the barriers of humans. We can’t change the flesh, and we can’t change the past or the future, any more than we could move or change Mount Everest. These are the boundaries of man. The 7 kings, however, are the senses used by human beings to rule and act using the carnal mind. Man works in the present, sitting on the mountain of past and future realities, which cannot be moved. Therefore, the seven “kings” are the five senses plus the *present* that humans actually make choices within, which comes from the future plans to act, but immediately goes from the present into the past in a split second. If I pick up a glass, I see it happening in the future, then I act in the present and do it. That future moves from present into the past, and then, it can't be changed. Therefore, the variables of the 7 kings are future plans and present, not the past. The mind works by having faith in the future, but acts in the present. These are the basic dynamics of human thinking and flesh, the mountains and kings of each human being that is trapped in the beast of time, knowing they are dying, and are trapped by time itself, not having the power of Eternal Life that is in Yahweh Elohim. Read this over and over, and you will see, this scripture describes precisely how a human being operates in fallen flesh.]

12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings [number digits 0-9] who have received no kingdom as yet [they have no power without a human being], but they receive authority for one hour as kings [numbers] with the beast [carnal flesh and mind].

13 These are of one mind [mathematical truths that run all science and money], and they will give their power and authority to the beast [human flesh and mind].

14 These [with time dimension] will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb [with the Eternal Word] will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”

15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.[Emotional thoughts of people]

16 And the ten horns [numbers that are used by humans] which you saw on[d] the beast [time], these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

17 For God has put it into their hearts [carnal humans and time, using numbers] to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom [formulas and mathematical laws of numbers] to the beast [flesh and carnal mind], until the words of God are fulfilled [and the fallen flesh is replaced with resurrected flesh]

18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city [gathered and organized worldly thoughts] which reigns over the kings [numbers and letters] of the earth.”

-------------------------------------------------
Rev Chapter 13:

1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea [emotional thoughts of humans], having seven heads [flesh and carnal mind] and ten horns [power of numbers],and on his horns ten number crowns [authority of numbers], and on his heads a blasphemous name [the flesh and carnal mind is an enemy against Yahweh Elohim].

2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard [spotted with black, sins of the flesh and mind.], his feet were like the feet of a bear [claws of the flesh], and his mouth like the mouth of a lion [roaring of the flesh—ahhhh!]. The dragon [devil] gave him his power, his throne, and great authority [the devil tells the flesh and mind how great they are, and we believe it, and actg accordingly].

3 And I saw one of his heads [future plans of the mind] as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. [When our future plans and hopes don’t work out the way we want, it hurts. We are wounded. The beast of time heals itself. We choose new hopes and goals.] And all the world marveled and followed the beast. [Man is amazed at the human body and mind]

4 So they worshiped the dragon [devil] who gave authority to the beast [man caters to the whims of the flesh and breaks Torah commands, being prodded continually by the devil to disobey Yahweh Elohim]; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” [We love the flesh and carnal thoughts. Who can stop us?]

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies [bragging humans about self], and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.

[42 months factors to 7, Yahweh’s number, meaning Yahweh creates the human flesh and mind. They are from him. The months are defined by the moon, referring to our human fleshly condition lives by the spiritual light of the moon shining in darkness. The flesh operates in moonlight, a reflection of the sunlight, not the direct Ruach sunlight. The five fleshly senses and the carnal mind work with the natural meaning of words, not the Eternal Life meaning of the Word. Manna is understood as food for the physical body, not the Messiah Himself. The human flesh cannot eat the body and blood of the Messiah, only the spirit can. Moonlight is not sunlight. Moonlight is in darkness, and thus, our flesh hides us from the Ruach sunlight, just as the *earth at nightime hides us from the physical sunlight*.

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. [Flesh and carnal mind does this continually to avoid repentance and submission to Yahweh’s law]

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.[The flesh always gets to the best of us, and we sin.] And authority was given him over every tribe,[d] tongue, and nation.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[Those who believe and follow the Ruach repent and strive against the flesh and carnal mind. They confess their sin. They seek to obey Torah and the prophets and worship Yahweh and His Son.]

9 If anyone has an ear [spiritual], let him hear.

10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity [those who lead with the flesh will be in prison]; he who kills with the sword [words of Yahweh used by the flesh and not the Ruach] must be killed with the sword [Words of Yahweh they use in the flesh. As they have judged destruction in pride on others, so they shall be judged and destroyed by Yahweh]. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. [To obey the Ruach and not the flesh]

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth [logical thoughts of human beings, such as those coming from earth sciences], and he had two horns like a lamb [earthly truths learned from reason and scientific methods] and spoke like a dragon [Rational thought also says there is no Yahweh Elohim, using whatever reasoning the beast-flesh dreams up.].

12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast [emotional appeal of the flesh and carnal mind] in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast [man himself, trapped in time, flesh, carnal mind], whose deadly wound was healed.

13 He performs great signs [proofs, reasons to believe him], so that he even makes fire [spiritual light and truth] come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men [Those in the flesh who create spiritual power from the Word of Elohim to deceive others. We all know of thousands of such preachers. They have great power to pump people up to believe lies, being Anti-Torah, lawless preachers of the Word].

14 And he deceives those[e] who dwell on the earth [flesh] by those signs [proofs by logical thinking] which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image [false view of self, or “self image” by rational thought] to the beast [flesh and carnal mind] who was wounded [future plans failed] by the sword [Word of Yahweh] and lived.

15 He was granted power to give breath [life] to the image [self image] of the beast [time,flesh], that the image [self image] of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image [spiritual self] of the beast to be killed. [The imposed self-image will compete and seek to destroy anyone who contradicts it. Self wants to sit on the throne of Yahweh and be worshipped.]

16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand [works] or on their foreheads [thoughts], [Self who sits on the throne will drive human beings to do its works and thinking. Those who obey the flesh, becomes slaves to the flesh.]

17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [Love of money and power is the heart of the flesh. The buying and selling to make a profit is driven by self. If self doesn’t make a profit, the business dies. This order is contrary to the kingdom of heaven where Yahweh sits on the throne, and not our self-image.]

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast [flesh], for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

[Much mystery surrounds 666. It’s not that difficult to know what it means. Six is the number of man. It is his works six days of the week. 666 is the idea of the flesh trying to work to save itself, to reach perfection of Yahweh’s perfect number 7, but never can reach it. It’s fallen flesh. If you were to pick a number to describe your flesh and carnal mind that you deal with every day to discipline into obedience, what would you pick? 666….perfect description of it.

Also, please note that the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet are all working together under the same dimension of time, and therefore, the 666 could definitely represent these three working together as one. We know what the dragon is—the devil. We know what the beast is—the flesh and mind of man. But what about the false prophet? Well, the false prophet is that head of the beast that predicts the future, the one that keeps getting wounded every time we work for a goal that Yahweh prohibits, getting hurt, then healing itself with a different self-image goal. It is the false promises of the mind making things up about the future. It says, “If you do or buy this, then you will be happy”. Do you want to see the false prophet? It is in every billboard we drive by that is promising us happiness by sinning. True happiness and joy is the fruit of the Ruach and is receive by keeping the commandments of Yahweh. The worldly billboards and ads are lies of the false prophet.]

Jan,

I just read your bio. In reading Paul's writing, and you already may know this, but the problem is not "self", it is the flesh and carnal mind. We don't kill self, and we don't kill the flesh, even though Paul uses those terms to describe what we do. When we choose to obey the Spirit, we "kill" the flesh *daily*. That is what he means, so his words say "self", not flesh. The commandment is to love our neighbor as ourself, not kill self. So, once we find that the flesh and carnal mind is the problem, and that reality isn't going to change until we are resurrected, it frees us in two ways.

First of all, we can relax when irratic feelings come. Just flush. They won't go away until the resurrection. We can't change the flesh or the feelings. What we can do, however, is choose to kill them by ignoring them, flushing, and then obeying the Eternal Word.

Second, it places much more emphasis on the resurrection of the dead, when we will be put into different flesh that does not sin.

I'm not a seventh day adventist, but fellowshipped one year with you all, and I can only say positive things about my experience. Yahweh used that SDA group I fellowshipped with to move me to the next step in my walk with Him. I am ever grateful to Him and them.

Blessings,
Greg

(Jan) Greg,I would respectfully have to disagree with your interpretation of Revelation 13, as I feel you have not given a Biblical, contextual justification for the interpretation of the symbols.

(Greg) My purpose is and was not to persuade. It is to share. So to try and justify the view is outside of my purpose.

(Jan) They seem quite arbitrary to me.

(Greg) To be arbitrary would imply no flow in logic or sense to the verses, which does not agree with the clarity of meaning of beasts we all wrestle with daily in our thoughs, which is explaine by the view.

(Jan) Revelation 13 is clearly linked to Daniel seven, where the meaning of the beasts is explicitly stated as political powers that appear in historical progression.

(Greg) It is linked to the beasts, that is true. I think the interpetation clearly links them to the beast or kingdoms, but, explains the thoughts behind the political kingdoms of Daniel 7 at a deeper level.

(Jan) I follow a principle of allowing Scripture to interpret itself and one that has Christ as the center (John 5.39).

(Greg) Many follow this principle, but in some cases it can lead the wrong direction, in my opinion. I challenge you or anyone where Yahweh or His Son says this is true. My understanding is that Yahushua (Jesus) said He would give us His Spirit to teach us all things and bring all things to our rememberance what he said. The Spirit must lead in the Bible teaching us. I should also point out, that to make that claim you are making for the interpretation I shared, one would need to throw out several revelations and visions from E. White that fill in holes that have no biblical support directly, but, she illuminates ideas that are not clearly explained in the Bible. So, if you truly believe and follow that principle of "the Bible interprets the Bible", then you can't also follow Ellen White. So, you will need to back off on that argument about this interpretation in Rev 13 to be consistent with being a SDA. This is not to condemn or challenge White's visions, but to simply point out the inconsistency of your logic here.

(Jan) Regarding your comment about the nature of self I would again have to disagree, though I think I understand the distinction you are wanting to make and do take your point.

(Greg) I had made several references to "self". Which are you referring to. Can you explain in more detail?

(Jan) I have also replied to your email.

Here is a link to a post I wrote on principles of interpretation for the Apocalypse.

http://thejerichoroad.com/word-made-flesh/2008/7/15/unlocking-the-book-of-revelation-some-helps-for-interpretati.html

(Greg) Thank you. I will take a look at it.

Blessings,
Greg

Thanks for coming by and commenting. God bless.

Jan,

I just read the link you shared with me on the book of Revelation. I certainly can see how any view outside of these guidelines would be rejected. Someday, I will have to put up a blog or more information, so that the view I share might be more readily accessed.

The question I'm about to ask you is the reason I changed my position on the book of Revelation. Perhaps you can answer the question to my satisfaction to redirect my course back to the traditional views that currently exist. I have not had anyone satisfactorily answer the question to justify my belief in the thousands of views that are all going the wrong direction.

The verses are at the end of the book and the beginning. At the end of the book, Yahweh warns that if anyone adds to the words of the book, that the plagues of teh book will be added to them.

This book was written in 90AD, and therefore, if anyone tampering with the book from that time until now, will have to suffer the plagues of the book, which most people believe have not occurred yet on earth.

This statement, then, to be honored by Yahweh, has to be implemented in the life of the believer on earth when they tamper with the Word, or, it has to happen in the future when they die. This then, must move the context of the book to a period of now, not future or past. Same is true of 90ad or 500ad.

And thus, Yahweh says the prophecy of the book will be fulfilled shortly, not 2000 or more years later.

Therefore, the book is about the believer's life right now, and how to overcome sin, and what happens to the pharisee that rejects Yahweh's word and plays he role of Elohim with the Word, and mishandles it. These suffer the plagues in the book on earth. These are literal soul/spirit dynamics that happen identified in the book.

Now, if you can explain to me how Yahweh will honor the curse written in the last few verses of the book, if someone adds to or subtracts from the prophecy of the book 500 years ago, perhaps I might be persuaded to embrace some of the current thinking of theologians. If not, I will continue to reject them.

Greg

(Jan) Those who, in John's day, might add or subtract from the words of the prophecy would face punishment. The emphasis in 22.18-19 is not on 'when' they would be punished but how. It is the nature of the punishment not the timing that is being highlighted. God is saying 'what' he will do not 'when' he will do it.

(Greg) That is precisely my point. Not when, but HOW. It says they will suffere the plagues (plural) written in John's revelation. Well, if the future plagues have not yet occurred, then how can Yahweh honor and fulfill what He said to do? If you say the prophecy of plagues pertains beyond the life of the person reading it, then the "how" can't be implemented, making the last few verses null and void. But if we see the images of the beasts and plagues as the operations of the flesh/soul/spirit, then we suffer the plagues as we reject and missapply the Word of Yahweh. Adding or subtracting from the Word would be to include interpretations that are not correct, and yet, are presented as though the are "this way or no way", or to say it another way, with the spirit of pride and not humility.

I seek not to condemn any interpretation, but I do find the imitations where they do not fit. For example, Daniel Chapter 2. The current traditional interpretations do not take into account where the word says "in the days of these kings" Yahwrh will set up a kingdom that will be forever. Well, exactly where is that "kingdom" on earth, if "these kings" refers to what scholars claim it says. When was this kingdom of Yahweh which is more important than the gold, silver, brozne, and iron image? That theological piece does not fit into interpretation of Daniel 2. Unless you can show me where it fits? If you can, then you have my attention.

Thus, I reject the scholars and do not believe they have interpretted it correctly.

Finally, I have to factor in my own personal experience. I met a man, who seems credible, and we spoke at length about the coming nuclear devestation on our earth. He said he saw the entire destruction in vision in 1980, as though he were actually witnessing it in person. He could smell the air and watch the event. He told me some things that contradict the scholar's views, which he claims he received from Yahweh. Now what do I do with that?

See, so if someone starts interpretting prophecy, it can't be in bits and pieces. The entire prophecy needs to come together, and as such, for Daniel 2, the scholars' views fall very short in explaining the ROCK that is cut out of the mountain....which is the most important part of the vision. We should spend more time identifying the Rock that the kingdoms of the World, should we not?

We want to recognize the Eternal kingdom of Yahweh and be part of it. Who cares about the kingdoms of the world? Where is the kingdom of Yahweh today, the Rock, and how does it fit into Daniel 2.

The 10 kings of Rome that are suggested as the 10 kings of the feet came AFTER Yahushua's death and resurrection. Those "feet" came AFTER the New Testament Assembly...proving the interpretation false.

So, I believe the view I use explains these questions that the others do not, and so, in my mind, the scholars are not seeing the full picture of the prophecy correclty.

And if they are wrong about Daniel, well, then what confidence do we have about their views of Revelation?

Greg

(Greg) I posted this before editing it. Sorry, I decided to edit it. Here it is again:

That is precisely my point. Not when, but HOW. It says they will suffer the plagues (plural) written in Revelation. Well, if the future plagues have not yet occurred, then how can Yahweh honor and fulfill what He said He will do? If you say the prophecy of plagues pertains beyond the life of the person reading it, then the "how" can't be implemented, making the last few verses null and void.

But if we see the images of the beasts and plagues as the operations of the flesh/soul/spirit, then we will suffer the plagues as we reject and missapply the Word of Yahweh. Adding or subtracting from the Word includes interpretations that are not correct, and yet, are presented as though they are "this way or no way", or to say it another way, using the spirit of pride and not humility.

I seek not to condemn any interpretation, but I do find the limitations where they do not fit. For example, Daniel Chapter 2. The current traditional interpretations do not take into account where the word says "in the days of these kings" Yahweh will set up a kingdom that will be forever. Well, exactly where is that "kingdom" on earth today, if "these kings" refers to what scholars claim it says. When was this kingdom of Yahweh, the Rock? It is more important than the gold, silver, bronze, and iron image? That theological piece does not fit into interpretation of Daniel 2. Unless you can show me where it fits? If you can, then you have my attention.

Thus, I reject the scholars and do not believe they have interpretted it correctly.

Finally, I have to factor in my own personal experience. I met a man, who seems credible, and we spoke at length about the coming nuclear devestation on our earth. He said he saw the entire destruction in vision in 1980, as though he were actually witnessing it in person. He could smell the air and watch the event. He told me some things that contradict the scholar's views, which he claims he received from Yahweh. Now what do I do with that?

See, so if someone starts interpretting prophecy, it can't be in bits and pieces. The entire prophecy needs to come together, and as such, for Daniel 2, the scholars' views fall very short in explaining the ROCK that is cut out of the mountain....which is the most important part of the vision. We should spend more time identifying the Rock than the kingdoms of the World, should we not?

We want to recognize the Eternal kingdom of Yahweh and be part of it. Who cares about the kingdoms of the world? Where is the kingdom of Yahweh today, the Rock, and how does it fit into Daniel 2.

The 10 kings of Rome that are suggested as the 10 kings of the feet came AFTER Yahushua's death and resurrection. Those "feet" came AFTER the New Testament Assembly...proving the interpretation false.

So, I believe the view I use answers these questions and issues that the others do not, and so, in my mind, the scholars are not seeing the full picture of the prophecy correclty.

And if they are wrong about Daniel, well, then what confidence do we have about their views of Revelation?

Greg

Dr. Veith preaches nothing new. He is just bringing back the original message of adventism in the LAST DAYS. Sister White says in the last days there will be a huge outpouring of the Holy Spirit and we will all see the signs and wonders. Dr. Veith only illuminates the message that adventism was founded on. In the present future we will all see what is about to take place. If anyone thinks that what Dr. Veith says is new i encourage all of us to read The Great Controversy. Also read The Broken Blueprint if you have questions as to why this stuff is no longer preached upon and taught in SDA Schools. It shocked me!

God is Good!
Joshua Hogg

As a former Catholic, but not an SDA, i believe that certainly when quoting catholic sources Dr Veith is being truthful about the beliefs of Rome. Nothing he said shocked me, as it was as i was taught. As for conspiracies, he hardly goes in to 9/11, and you will find a lot more secular zealots willing to put forward evidence that it was an inside job

Jan,

When you have a chance, I'l love to understand what the "rock" is in Daniel 2 for SDA teachings, or any other for that matter. When is teh Rock Kingdom set up? According to the interpretion, it is set up in the "days of these kings" Daniel spoke about.

So the question is whether it is referring to the 10 kings of the toes, or, is his statement referring to the four kingdoms of the world - gold, silver, brass, iron.

Since Yahweh's Kingdomt is an eternal kingdom, I prefer to view it as the four kings, not the ten (though they are part of the four), as the correct interpretation.

The Biblical writers of the New Testament refer to themselves as being in the last days, and I think they were interpretting Daniel's vision including them.

The last days therefore starts with Babylon and ends with the last world kingdom, the iron legs. The kingdom of Heaven grows along side the kingdoms of the world, which started in Daniel's day. All time after Daniel represents the second half of the earth's temporal existence, and therefore, we are living in the "latter days" or 2nd half of time, which included the apostles and Babylong. The apostles obviously believed it that way or they would not have said they were living in the "last days".

I have a hard time believing the traditional views of Daniel for this reason. I can't find the "rock" out of the mountain in them. Comments? Maybe you could explain it. Generally, people focus more on the world kingdoms than our Father's kingdom when reading Daniel. It is there only to teach us about the kingdom of Heaven. We can leave the world behind.

For this reason, I agree with you that Dr. Veith should leave the secret societies to themselves and focus on the basic faith and repentance message of the kingdom.

I went to Bill's site. In terms of the Mormons he mentions a couple of times, they are in the holy land of their own, with a Salt Sea (Great Salt Lake) and fresh water lake that flows into it. However, in Utah the fresh water comes from the South (Egypt), and in Israel, the fresh water flows from the North, just the opposite. I believe this geography was created by Yahweh to send us the message of who appeared to Joseph Smith, a false Messiah and the fallen angels.

What is the abomination of desolation?

Greg

The Abominations of Desolation is when the Holy spirit is withdrawn from all those that are not sealed in the Kingdom of God. Those that chose to deny Chirst will have the Holy spirit withdrawn. Those that are sealed will be filled with the Spirit and will not be affected by the plagues and will be untouched by the justice God pours out on the sinners. This is all from The great Controversy. I can't quote anything.

Conspiracy is just a way to make something with creedence into something be thrown away. Facts can substantiate the conspiracy in some cases. (I am not talking alien/ghosts/mythologicalwhatnot/inserthere...) In cases that effect the all out WAR ON YOUR SOUL Satan uses EVERY means necessary to keep you from understanding the "Peace that surpasses understanding". Part of his way of doing this is to use groups of people who have given their soul to the self and will take power by any means necessary. These people are World leaders in business and politics and just old old old money. They are selfish. One doesn't amass that much wealth and power without selling their soul. But it doesn't matter to them. Satan has blinded their eyes with MONEY. While Sister White doesn't specifically go into every detail concerning how these events are to take place, she makes clear that in the time of the end the hardships that a beleiver must go through "will be worst than those every to have past and to ever come."

There are plenty of other definitely non Christian writers that will collaborate with the fact that evil world organizations are after complete power and a bringing together of all nations. This will be all under the guise of love and helping everyone, especially that of apostate religion.
I almost joined the masons. Until i learned what it meant i had to do. It means you have to recognize all religions deities. But the only way to be a Mason is to ask. That is the key. If you ask, as this was explained to me, it shows that you want something more and are willing to do anything to make it happen. I have other personal stories if you want to hear.

Dr. Veith is VERY intelligent. Some people were gifted with the ability to put two things together that others won't or can't see. If Dr. Veith sounds far out try listening to many others out there that are saying the same thing from a non-Christian perspective. Alex Jones is a reporter who has witnessed this stuff. Try www.zeitgeistmovie.com Part one just shows alone that ancient paganism was tied very closely with early Christianity in this case presented by someone who doesn't know any better. Parts 2 and 3 are eye openers.

Matthew ch. 24,25 Jesus makes clear than we will not know the time or the hour but "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the door." (v.33) The end won't come to us unawares if you are looking at the signs that we are given but we have to search for them. God does not allow anyone in Heaven who doesn't want to be there. We must seek the kingdom of God, and God will show it to us and we will find it. (Mt. 7:8)

I have asked God to enlighten me and give me wisdom to see these things for how they are.

Joshua Hogg

These end time events have been put into motion already. Very soon we will see the extent. Financial crisis, false flag-terrorism, deadly diseases, extermination of the disenters(eventually sabbeth keepers). God has opened my eyes.
Listen to David Gates, he is on fire with the Spirit. "the comming crisis" sermon is great.
God reveals when we let him, AND when we give ourselves to him and die to self. He promises.

Joshua Hogg

Jan,

No problem. Take your time. No rush. Don't get too cold in Findland.

Joshua,

Interesting that you have an answer for the abomination of desolation from the Great Controversy. I read parts of it, but put it down when it went into some things about the angels and arguments between Yahweh and our enemy. It sounds good, but I just don't think "pride" and the basic argument she presents really gives enough reason to fight over. There has to be a much stronger debate to wage war among angels. I believe in the possiblity of prophets and prophetesses, but so far, I'm still looking for some that fit the scripture requirements of never failing in their prophecies.

How is having he Ruach (Holy Spirit) withdrawn an abomination? What is "desolated" or made waste? What is the Mountain to flee to?

Thanks for sharing Joshua. We certainly can see the world changing around us very quickly.

Greg

Here is what Sister White says about the abomination of desolation.

"Jesus declared to the listening disciples the judgments that were to fall upon apostate Israel, and especially the retributive vengeance that would come upon them for their rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah. Unmistakable signs would precede the awful climax. The dreaded hour would come suddenly and swiftly. And the Saviour warned his followers: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand), then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." [MATT. 24:15, 16; LUKE 21:20.] When the idolatrous standards of the Romans should be set up in the holy ground, which extended some furlongs outside the city walls, then the followers of Christ were to find safety in flight. When the warning sign should be seen, those who would escape must make no delay. Throughout the land of Judea, as well as in Jerusalem itself, the signal for flight must be immediately obeyed. He who chanced to be upon the housetop must not go down into his house, even to save his most valued treasures. Those who were working in the fields or vineyards must not take time to return for the outer garment laid aside while they should be toiling in the heat of the day. They must not hesitate a moment, lest they be involved in the general destruction." {GC88 26.1}

"By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near." {5T 451.1}

"As the approach of the Roman armies was a sign to the disciples of the impending destruction of Jerusalem, so may this apostasy be a sign to us that the limit of God's forbearance is reached, that the measure of our nation's iniquity is full, and that the angel of mercy is about to take her flight, never to return. The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress which prophets have described as the time of Jacob's trouble. The cries of the faithful, persecuted ones ascend to heaven. And as the blood of Abel cried from the ground, there are voices also crying to God from martyrs' graves, from the sepulchers of the sea, from mountain caverns, from convent vaults: "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" {5T 451.2}

“It is no time now for God's people to be fixing their affections or laying up their treasure in the world. The time is not far distant, when, like the early disciples, we shall be forced to seek a refuge in desolate and solitary places. As the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman armies was the signal for flight to the Judean Christians, so the assumption of power on the part of our nation in the decree enforcing the papal sabbath will be a warning to us. It will then be time to leave the large cities, preparatory to leaving the smaller ones for retired homes in secluded places among the mountains. And now, instead of seeking expensive dwellings here, we should be preparing to move to a better country, even a heavenly. Instead of spending our means in self-gratification, we should be studying to economize.” Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 464-5.

This website has a really really really detailed version.
http://biblelight.net/abomination-of-desolation.htm

Speaking of conspiracy stuff still i can't help but give this Bible quote regarding HOW these end time events are going to take place.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12)

I know this conspiracy stuff sounds too movie like to be true, but the fact is everything that must happen for the end to take place must be caused by someone or something. Satan can only work through men that allow him to work in themselves. These transnational people, organizations and philosophy pushers are only after the same thing that satan fell for.
These people PRIDE themselves as great as God and that is worthy to be expelled from Heaven and to not be allowed to go to heaven in our case. This breaks the law of God. God in his infinite justice and love, lets those who do not want to follow him to leave. That wouldn't be love if he forced them to obey him.
Pride was the thing that separated satan from God in the first place, repetition of sin causes lies, deception, and hate. Pride that the fallen angels and satan had for themselves and the lies that they believed caused the great controversy as we know it. They separated themselves from ultimate perfection, and satan being the great deceiver wants all of us humans to fall for the same tricks. In the last chapter of the Great Controversy Sister white says Satan will not give up in his fight against God, even up until God destroys him he will many times try to continue to fight. Satan wants us to join his side SO BAD. He wants us to be kept from ultimate perfection he doesn't want us to know the perfection in Gods Perfect Law.

There are allot of hurt ex-adventists out there that love to throw insults at EGW. Probably a traumatic experience from super duper conservative parents who did not truly represent God's perfect love. Once again satan's work. His favorite tool is the church institutions and other Christians. I pray that you will find the truth. and in my humble opinion, Ellen G. White speaks directly in line with Scripture. She herself says to compare her writings to scripture to make sure they are in harmony.

Joshua Hogg

Jan
I read some your other posts on Dr. Veith. And noticed you don't really believe the same things that adventism preaches as doctrine. You should not be proclaiming to be Adventist. You are apostate. You might like this site.

http://whereholyfeethavetrod.blogspot.com/2008/09/satan-hijacks-adventist-pastor-mckenzie.html

WE are commanded to rebuke people like you.

I understand you went through allot and by the grace of God you are alive and somewhat following him, but i urge you, just because you live in Wales does not make you immune to what is going to happen to the world. We must know these end time issues so nothing will come as a surprise to us. If we are versed up on scripture then we are to be safe.

One other thing. While Adventism now preaches Jesus' love all the time there is a balance that must be made. The only reason we are to teach about Jesus is for the second coming that is only happening because Jesus Died for us. The whole point of the Bible is to prepare us to enter into His kingdom. Preaching of the soon coming end times i.e. Revelation, AND the Jesus through the cross go hand in hand.

I suggest you read "Apocalypitc Vision & the Neutering of Adventistm" by George R. Knight

http://www.reviewandherald.com/newproducts/product.pl?type=sku&sku=9780828023856

Joshua

Joshua,

Wow, that is a lot of writing to wade through. I read it, but her writing goes on and on and on. What exactly is the abomination of desolation?

What's the deal with rebuking Jan on prophecy?

If anyone is arrogant enough to believe they can for sure interpret Bible prophecy before it occurs is quite unwise. We know for sure the truth when it comes to pass, and not before. Indeed, Duet says to test a prophet by the prophecy. If it happens, then such and such. If it doesn't happen, then the person is not Yahweh's prophet.

To start condeming a person for their belief in Bible prophecy steps outside of that instruction.

To condemn someone for not teaching prophecy, "this way or no way" is a bit of a blinded eye.

Secondly, I like Jan because he speaks from his heart rather that cutting and pasting someone else's views. Ms White writes a lot of words that you quoted and I thank yoiu for sharing! That was kind of you and extra work to get the quote. Thank you.

But what exactly is the abomination of desolation? Has it occurred yet? Wil it occur? Has is partially occured?

What exactly is it?

I thought she was going to say was is the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, but then, she moved off into planet Z.

Greg

Josh,

I'm not here to bash Ms White. Some of her views are great, some are good, but some are not so good. I enjoyed my fellowship with the SDA in 1999. It was Ruach filled fellowshhip. We even prayed for a guy that got healed. Cool stuff.

But, here's an example of Ms White's writing. Don't take this as a slam on her. No one is perfect...no one.

She writes:

Pride was the thing that separated satan from God in the first place, repetition of sin causes lies, deception, and hate. Pride that the fallen angels and satan had for themselves and the lies that they believed caused the great controversy as we know it. They separated themselves from ultimate perfection, and satan being the great deceiver wants all of us humans to fall for the same tricks. In the last chapter of the Great Controversy Sister white says Satan will not give up in his fight against God, even up until God destroys him he will many times try to continue to fight. Satan wants us to join his side SO BAD. He wants us to be kept from ultimate perfection he doesn't want us to know the perfection in Gods Perfect Law.

This sounds more like a human being applying war stategies in heaven based on human pride on earth. These angels stand face to face with yahwh and his Son. They argue with him face to face. What's the big fight over? Pride?

I don't buy it. It's not strong enough of a conflict to stir up angels.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure pride is a part of the problem, but, until we know exactly what the argument and debate in heaven was and still is, pride is just a generic term that adds no value to what the Bible already says about pride. That is why I left the SDA fellowship. Yahweh moved me on to something much better.

The book of Mormon does the same thing with pride, exalting it as the major enemy of man.

No. The battle is not over pride. It's over truth and lies......remember, the devil pretends NOT to be proud. If you met him, you might even think he was a humble guy...when he is pretenting.

So the question to ask is what is the fight over? The answer to that question would have much more value than what Ms White offers in her book...the Great Contoversy.

Greg

Josh,

Here is another example:

(Josh) He wants us to be kept from ultimate perfection he doesn't want us to know the perfection in Gods Perfect Law.

(Greg) Well, if this is true, then that is not pride. Pride would be that whatever he believes in true he would argue is BETTER than Yahweh's kingdom, showing the advantages of choosing him of the "enemy" Yahweh.

Your very writings contract the premise you are stating.

The the real helpful factor would be to know what exactly they are arguing over...the truth and the lie.

Do you know?

Greg

Josh,

I just went to Chapter 23 of the Great Controvery. This is what she writes:

"Adam and Eve had been perfectly happy in obedience to the law of God, and this fact was a constant testimony against the claim which Satan had urged in heaven, that God's law was oppressive and opposed to the good of His creatures."

See? What does that mean? God's law is oppressive? How could the enemy make such a claim unless there was "evidince" that Yahweh was or is oppressive? Is Yahweh oppressive or not?

What did yahweh do that would validate such a claim?

See?

This kind of logic doesn't stick. There is no reason for any other angel to follow Satan just because he starts arging, "Yahweh, your laws are oppressive." They are not that stupid are they?

Again, her writtings appear to be more of a human being extremely skilled in scripture applying the "general conflicts" on earth to a heavenly battle that as far as I can see, would not be fought over such vague "concepts" as "Yahew is oppressive", unless, of course, He did something that could be viewed as oppressive by all.

What exactly did Yahweh do to cause disbelief and the war?

Then, the enemy would have some meat on his argument.

So, basically, I'm asking you, "Where's the beef?"

In my limited reading of E. White, I couldn't find "the beef".

Jan,

Can you also comments after the 19th? Anyone else.?

Where's the beef in a couple paragraphs....that would be very much appreciated. I look for a year. I couldn't fit it.

Greg

Correction...I looked for a year. I couldn't *find* it -- the beef.

Greg

Josh,

I hope this doesn't offend you. Here is a final example about E White's writings. In the following quote, she postultes a lot of words about the war in heaven, and yet, when one stands back and asks, "What exactly did Yahweh do to be accused by the adversary about the "oppressive laws" to unite with enough angels to cause war?

Even wars on earth are never faught over good laws, but only oppressive ones. What did Yahweh say or do that would give the enemy "credibility" in heaven that his view was right, and Yahweh's wrong? See. It's just ages, and pages, and pages of the same beefless arguments about the war. IT sounds quite impressive how she weaves scipture into her personal and incorrect theories about heaven.

YOu see? Gossip and secret whiperings and all that kind of things happen on earth because humans sin and make mistakes, and everyone know it. So on earth, this kind of behavior makes sense, that one could discredit and slander another human being. But that's only because there is so much evidence done by wicked people on earth its believeable.

But my goodness, around Yahweh and His Son who are perfect? No. Her views fall down flat.

This writing below will no doubt be proven incorect in Eternties to come.

Where's the beef? I don't see any below:

Greg
(PS. Just because White expresses opinions about scriptures that have no beef, it doesn't have anything t do with salvation for those who are SDA. I want to make sure everyone knows that though I disagree with White, these views are not salvation issues. I'm not saying she is evil or damned. But I certainly don't agree with her.)

Greg

( White quote) All heaven had rejoiced to reflect the Creator's glory and to show forth His praise. And while God was thus honored, all had been peace and gladness. But a note of discord now marred the celestial harmonies. The service and exaltation of self, contrary to the Creator's plan, awakened forebodings of evil in minds to whom God's glory was supreme. The heavenly councils pleaded with Lucifer. The Son of God presented before him the greatness, the goodness, and the justice of the Creator, and the sacred, unchanging nature of His law. God Himself had established the order of heaven; and in departing from it, Lucifer would dishonor his Maker, and bring ruin upon himself. But the warning, given in infinite love and mercy, only aroused a spirit of resistance. Lucifer allowed jealousy of Christ to prevail, and he became the more determined.

Pride in his own glory nourished the desire for supremacy. The high honors conferred upon Lucifer were not appreciated as the gift of God and called forth no gratitude to the Creator. He gloried in his brightness and exaltation, and aspired to be equal with God. He was beloved and reverenced by the heavenly host. Angels delighted to execute his commands, and he was clothed with wisdom and glory above them all. Yet the Son of God was the acknowledged Sovereign of heaven, one in power and authority with the Father. In all the councils of God, Christ was a participant, while Lucifer was not permitted thus to enter into the divine purposes. "Why," questioned this mighty angel, "should Christ have the supremacy? Why is He thus honored above Lucifer?"

Leaving his place in the immediate presence of God, Lucifer went forth to diffuse the spirit of discontent among the angels. Working with mysterious secrecy, and for a time concealing his real purpose under an appearance of reverence for God, he endeavored to excite dissatisfaction concerning the laws that governed heavenly beings, intimating that they imposed an unnecessary restraint. Since their natures were holy, he urged that the angels should obey the dictates of their own will. He sought to create sympathy for himself by representing that God had dealt unjustly with him in bestowing supreme honor upon Christ. He claimed that in aspiring to greater power and honor he was not aiming at self-exaltation, but was seeking to secure liberty for all the inhabitants of heaven, that by this means they might attain to a higher state of existence.

God in His great mercy bore long with Lucifer. He was not immediately degraded from his exalted station when he first indulged the spirit of discontent, nor even when he began to present his false claims before the loyal angels. Long was he retained in heaven. Again and again he was offered pardon on condition of repentance and submission. Such efforts as only infinite love and wisdom could devise were made to convince him of his error. The spirit of discontent had never before been known in heaven. Lucifer himself did not at first see whither he was drifting; he did not understand the real nature of his feelings. But as his dissatisfaction was proved to be without cause, Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong, that the divine claims were just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels. He had not at this time fully cast off his allegiance to God. Though he had forsaken his position as covering cherub, yet if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator's wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God's great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office. But pride forbade him to submit. He persistently defended his own course, maintained that he had no need of repentance, and fully committed himself, in the great controversy, against his Maker.

Jan,

OK, I'll wait until you return.

In terms of Ellen White, my experience in SDA placed a greater emphasis on The Great Controversy, in which many foundational principles expressed are unrevealed in scripture. I do not know of her other book you mention.

I believe the gospel of the Messiah is repenantace and then faith not the other way around -- faith then repentance (which it sounds like is the premise of the book by E White--faith first).

Repentance is to be based on love and worship, not faith. When done in that order, faith increases through love and repentance by Yahweh's grace.

In terms of Josh, I believe you did the correct thing. However, if he agrees not to slam anyone else and repent of the slander of someone's name, he should be permitted to post again. Just my view.

Greg

Jan

You are welcome. Look forward to hearing from you after the jet lag passes and you get back into your regular activities.

Greg

Jan,

I thought we were going to discuss Daniel and Revelation and some of these other questions I asked. I hope I didn't offend you.

Greg

"... the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power - all will be unmasked. By these solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven. As the people go to their former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears and quiet the awakened conscience. But since many refuse to be satisfied with the mere authority of men and demand a plain 'Thus saith the Lord,' the popular ministry, like the Pharisees of old, filled with anger as their authority is questioned, will denounce the message as of Satan and stir up the sin-loving multitudes to revile and persecute those who proclaim it." -- The Great Controversy, pg 606, 607.
Hmmm... Why do we content about all this? The message that Walter Veith is proclaiming is going to go forth anyway, and the Lord's messenger said that it will go out. I wonder what the real root issue is because we as humans always deal with the symptoms. Pastor Walter J. Veith is preaching the right message for this time, and I am fully supporting him in doing so. The quote above is quite clear on the point, only some will still argue even with a clear statement as that.

I am not a Seventh day Adventist; I am just a Bible believing Christian and member of a church with several flaws. I frequently observe flaws in official church doctrine, the beliefs of fellow church members, and in the character of my own children, but I have an unexplainable burning love for all of them. I also have my own share of flaws, therefore I choose to overlook all these flaws and focus on the positive aspects while trying to contribute constructive inputs. I can only thank God for my own errors, otherwise I may became judgemental (God’s privilege) and may miss the opportunity to grow on every positive element.

Furthermore I wish to thank Walter Veith for his videos, every ‘foolish idea’ or faulty ‘conspiracy theory’ in them, as it enabled me to come closer to the true God. Although I may disagree with some aspects, I accept all of these ‘flaws’ and will focus on the positive elements in the hope that God will also accept me with all my flaws.

Personally I feel that subjects like ‘Walter Veith: Conspiracy Theorist Persona Non Grata’ is an attack on the person and not attacking the error, and that such actions serve to alienate the person and not the error. Therefore such criticism cannot be inspired by God. But that is just how I feel and who am I? Open your hearts and let God do the ‘talking’ if you really want to serve the true God.

With love in Jesus Christ, the only Life Giver

Dear sir,
on the one hand you dismiss many peoples logic by saying that their spirit is evident and hence does not merit any better answer.. And on the other hand you also do the same thing...
Is it possible that you are becoming Jealous of the increasing popularity of this small time no-theology person being mightly used by God? or is it that the GC has pressurized you to take this stand? Is your loyalty more to your GOD the creator and your sustainer than to your "church" or SDA organization calling itself the church? IS your real concern only that Tithe is going to go to somebody who is doing the ministry than to your own conferece? Remember you will have to answer these and more questions to The Living God on the judgement day who knows your innermost being and not to some regenade
"church" officers or even to us who read your blog...The rest all does not matter.. a gentle reminder from a donkey to Prophet Balaam...
bye

Could you give some concrete examples of statements Dr. Veith has made that are not in keeping with Bible/SDA teaching. Seems to me this is old fashioned, sound Adventist preaching. You say he substitutes Jesuit, etc. sources for a Bible foundation. I understand these quotes to be in support of not in place of the Bible. I would like to read your comment on this. Thanks.

Solemn Warnings Stir Thousands.--Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of Spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power,--all will be unmasked. By these solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven.--The Great Controversy, pp. 606, 607. (1888) {Ev 43.4}

Heretofore those who presented the truths of the third angel's message have often been regarded as mere alarmists. Their predictions that religious intolerance would gain control in the United States, that church and State would unite to persecute those who keep the commandments of God, have been pronounced groundless and absurd. It has been confidently declared that this land could never become other than what it has been, the defender of religious freedom. But as the question of enforcing Sunday observance is widely agitated, the event so long doubted and disbelieved is seen to be approaching, and the third message will produce an effect which it could not have had before. {GC88 605.3}
In every generation God has sent his servants to rebuke sin, both in the world and in the church. But the people desire smooth things spoken to them, and the pure, unvarnished truth is not acceptable. Many reformers, in entering upon their work, determined to exercise great prudence in attacking the sins of the church and the nation. They hoped, by the example of a pure Christian life, to lead the people back to the doctrines of the Bible. But the Spirit of God came upon them as it came upon Elijah, moving him to rebuke the sins of a wicked king and an apostate people; they could not refrain from preaching the plain utterances of the Bible,--doctrines which they had been reluctant to present. They were impelled to zealously declare the truth, and the danger which threatened souls. The words which the Lord gave them they uttered, fearless of consequences, and the people were compelled to hear the warning. {GC88 606.1}
Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to his service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of his Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of Spiritualism, the stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power,--all will be unmasked. By these solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from Heaven. As the people go to their former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears, and quiet the awakened conscience. But since many refuse to be satisfied with the mere authority of men, and demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord," the popular ministry, like the Pharisees of old, filled with anger as their authority is questioned, will denounce the message as of Satan, and stir up the sin-loving multitudes to revile and persecute those who proclaim it. {GC88 606.2}
     As the controversy extends into new fields, and the minds of the people are called to God's down-trodden law, Satan is astir. The power attending the message will only madden those who oppose it. The clergy will put forth almost superhuman efforts to shut away the light, lest it should shine upon their flocks. By every means at their command they will endeavor to suppress the discussion of these vital questions. The church appeals to the strong arm of civil power, and in this work, papists and Protestants unite. As the movement for Sunday enforcement becomes more bold and decided, the law will be invoked against commandment-keepers. They will be threatened with fines and imprisonment, and some will be offered positions of influence, and other rewards and advantages, as inducements to renounce their faith. But their steadfast answer is, "Show us from the Word of God our error,"--the same plea that was made by Luther under similar circumstances. Those who are arraigned before the courts make a strong vindication of the truth, and some who hear them are led to take their stand to keep all the commandments of God. Thus light will be brought before thousands who otherwise would know nothing of these truths. {GC88 607.1}

Psalm 2: 1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision. 5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Timothy 4:1. "in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." 1
Ezekiel 3: 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Luke 8:16 17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always concealed by another name, and another occupation. None is fitter than the lower degrees of Freemasonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Freemasonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands... A Literary Society is the most proper form for the introduction of our Order into any state where we are yet strangers." (as quoted in John Robinson's "Proofs of a Conspiracy" 1798, re- printed by Western Islands, Boston, 1967, p. 112)

The agencies of evil are combining their forces, and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones. --Testimonies, vol. 9, p 11. (1909) {Ev 32.1}

A power from beneath is working to bring about the last great scenes in the drama,—Satan coming as Christ, and working with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in those who are binding themselves together in secret societies. Those who are yielding to the passion for confederation are working out the plans of the enemy. The cause will be followed by the effect.—Testimonies for the Church 8:27, 28.
Selected Messages Book 2, page 131 association and partnership with men, cannot benefit us, and greatly dishonors God. Every species of deceit or conniving at sin is abhorrent to Him.Fraud runs all through these secret associations, and none can be bound up with them and be free men before God and heaven.
A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread” (Isaiah 8:9-13).
The Bible declares that before the coming of the Lord, Satan will work "with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness;" and they that "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved," will be left to receive "strong delusion, that they
should believe a lie." [2 THESS. 2:9-11.]
On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. These buildings were warranted to be fireproof, and they were erected to glorify their owners and builders. . . . {LDE 113.1}
The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fireproof buildings and said: "They are perfectly safe." But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines.--9T 12, 13 (1909). {LDE 113.2}

The great obstacle both to the acceptance and to the promulgation of truth, is the fact that it involves inconvenience and reproach. This is the only argument against the truth which its advocates have never been able to refute. But this does not deter the true followers of Christ. These do not wait for truth to become popular. Being convinced of their duty, they deliberately accept the cross, with the apostle Paul counting that "our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;" [2 COR. 4:17.] with one of old, "esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt." [HEB. 11:26.] {GC88 460.1}

Revelation 9:20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Matthew 4:4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.

1 John 4: 1 John 4: 7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19We love him, because he first loved us. 20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?  21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 2: 15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.  16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.  

John 2: 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Leviticus 19: . 17Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.  18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Galatians 5:  13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
1 Peter 3: 8Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
Ephesians 4
 1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.  4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.  7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of thestature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:  16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. As long as we hold to our own ideas and opinions with determined persistency, we cannot have the unity for which Christ prayed. {CW 37.1}
As we take up the study of God's word, we should do so with humble hearts. All selfishness, all love of originality, should be laid aside. Long-cherished opinions must not be regarded as infallible. It was the unwillingness of the Jews to give up their long-established traditions that proved their ruin. They were determined not to see any flaw in their own opinions or in their expositions of the Scriptures; but however long men may have entertained certain views, if they are not clearly sustained by the written word, they should be discarded. Those who sincerely desire truth will not be reluctant to lay open their positions for investigation and criticism, and will not be annoyed if their opinions and ideas are crossed. This was the spirit cherished among us forty years ago. . . . {CW 36.4}

1 Peter 2
Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Matthew 18: 15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
1 Corinthians 6:1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?  3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
Galatians 6: 1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.  2Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
John 15: 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.  8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.  10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
“Not until you feel that you could sacrifice your own self-dignity and even lay down your life in order to save an erring bother, have you cast the beam out of your own eye so that you are prepared to help your brother. Then you can approach him and touch his heart. No one has ever been reclaimed from a wrong position by censure and reproach” Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing pp. 128, 129.
“if we have in any manner defraud or injured our brother, we should make restitution. If we have unwittingly borne false witness, if we have mistated words, if we have injured his influence in any way, we should go to the onew with whom we have conversed about him, and take back all our injurious misstatements Thoughts From the Mount of Blessings, pg. 59
James 5: 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Colossians 3: 12Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.  14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. 15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Counsel to Writers & Editors Chapters 4 & 5
  Not to Be Suspected.--When a doctrine is presented that does not meet our minds, we should go to the word of God, seek the Lord in prayer, and give no place for the enemy to come in with suspicion and prejudice. We should never permit the spirit to be manifested that arraigned the priests and rulers against the Redeemer of the world. They complained that He disturbed the people, and they wished He would let them alone; for He caused perplexity and dissension. The Lord sends light to us to prove what manner of spirit we are of. We are not to deceive ourselves. {CW 43.1}
If a brother differ with you on some points of truth, do not stoop to ridicule, do not place him in a false light, or misconstrue his words, making sport of them; do not misinterpret his words and wrest them of their true meaning. This is not conscientious argument. Do not present him before others as a heretic, when you have not with him investigated his positions, taking the Scriptures text by text in the spirit of Christ to show him what is truth. You do not yourself really know the evidence he has for his faith, and you cannot really clearly define your own position. Take your Bible, and in a kindly spirit weigh
“Everyone who has been free to condemn or discourage will in his own experience be brought over the ground where he has caused others to pass; he will feel what they have suffered because of his want of sympathy and tenderness. It is the love of God toward us that has decreed this” Thoughts From the Mount of Blessings p. 136
John 15:  9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.  12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.  13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.  1
 1 John 5: 1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.  2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.  4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
2 Peter 3: 2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Galations 5: 16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

James 1: . 26If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
James 4: 4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Titus 3: 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.  8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Romans 12:  1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
2 Cortinthian 5  9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
Counsels to Writers and Editors, page 51
Hear Before You Condemn—When new light is presented to the church, it is perilous to shut yourselves away from it. Refusing to hear because you are prejudiced against the message or the messenger will not make your case excusable before God. To condemn that which you have not heard and do not understand will not exalt your wisdom in the eyes of those who are candid in their investigations of truth. And to speak with contempt of those whom God has sent with a message of truth, is folly and madness...If they entrench themselves in the belief that the whole truth has been revealed, they will be in danger of discarding precious jewels of truth that shall be discovered as men turn their attention to the searching of the rich mine of God’s word.—
Counsels to Writers and Editors, page 33
Maintaining Truth Not to Preclude New Light—It is a fact that we have the truth, and we must hold with tenacity to the positions that cannot be shaken; but we must not look with suspicion upon any new light which God may send, and say, Really, we cannot see that we need any more light than the old truth which we have hitherto received, and in which we are settled. While we hold to this position, the testimony of the True Witness applies to our cases its rebuke, “And knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.” Those who feel rich and increased with goods and in need of nothing, are in a condition of blindness as to their true condition before God, and they know it not.—The Review and Herald, August 7, 1894.
Counsels to Writers and Editors, page 45
We must study the truth for ourselves. No living man should be relied upon to think for us. No matter who it is, or in what position he may be placed, we are not to look upon any man as a perfect criterion for us. We are to counsel together, and to be subject to one another; but at the same time we are to exercise the ability God has given us to learn what is truth. Each one of us must look to God for divine enlightenment. We must individually develop a character that will stand the test in the day of God. We must not become set in our ideas, and think that no one should interfere with our opinions.—The Review and Herald, June 18, 1889.

  The opinions we have received through listening to the traditions of men must not be permitted to bar the way so that we shall not receive the light that requires reformation and transformation. Enter your closets with the Bible in your hand, and there commune with God, having an ear to hear what the Spirit saith unto you. Let your heart be humbled and teachable, softened and subdued by the Holy Spirit. If you find that your former views are not sustained by the Bible, it is for your eternal interest to learn this as soon as possible; for when God speaks in his word, our preconceived opinions must be yielded up, and our ideas brought into harmony with a "thus saith the Lord." Christ said, "Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth." With submissive spirit you are to obey the truth at any cost, knowing that the precepts of the Bible are the word of the eternal God. {RH, December 24, 1895 par. 4}
Christ said to the people, "Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me."
The Bible is the most precious book in the world. It is the only guide to direct the soul to the paradise of God.December 24, 1895 The Bible the Colored People's Hope.
Works will not buy for us an entrance into heaven. The one great Offering that has been made is ample for all who will believe. The love of Christ will animate the believer with new life. He who drinks from the water of the fountain of life, will be filled with the new wine of the kingdom. Faith in Christ will be the means whereby the right spirit and motive will actuate the believer, and all goodness and heavenly-mindedness will proceed from him who looks unto Jesus, the author and finisher of his faith. Look up to God, look not to men.. {1SM 388.1}
The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God's people, should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves, to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition, and worship they know not what. {CW 39.1}

God will arouse His people; if other means fail, heresies will come in among them, which will sift them, separating the chaff from the wheat. The Lord calls upon all who believe His word to awake out of sleep. Precious light has come, appropriate for this time. It is Bible truth, showing the perils that are right upon us. This light should lead us to a diligent study of the Scriptures, and a most critical examination of the positions which we hold. {CW 40.1}